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Digital Dolls Gallery Restructure

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 10:45 AM
Edit: Added in a proposed variation by zapatones.

Over at communityrelations we have a Gallery Make Over Project running and I have always thought that Digital Dolls is structured really oddly, I have thought of some hypothetical changes.  So I have a couple of proposals to change the structure that I think would benefit from input from the community.

Proposal 1 - Merge all the Things :la:
This would result in digital dolls submission process looking like this:
Customization > digital dolls > finished dolls
Customization > digital dolls > bases

The simplest we can make the gallery look.  Would cut down on miscats immensely, especially with regards to tracing and shading style, and should be easy to keep clean.  This does mean that traced and original work is merged again.

Proposal 2a - Merge some of the Things 8D
This would result in a similar plan as above.
Customization > digital dolls > finished dolls > pixel shaded
Customization > digital dolls > bases > pixel shaded
Customization > digital dolls > finished dolls > tool shaded
Customization > digital dolls > bases > tool shaded
 
This keeps shading styles as separate categories, will cut down on some of the miscats with regards to shading style (how many colours before pixel shaded becomes tool will still be a debate) and will immensely cut down on miscats due to tracing.  But this means that traced and original work are merged again.

Proposal 2b - Merge some of the things differently 8D
Customization > digital dolls > finished dolls > original work
Customization > digital dolls > bases > original base
Customization > digital dolls > finished dolls > traced work
Customization > digital dolls > bases > traced base

This keeps the traced vs original variation and uses the wording original base in a way that is more logical than it's being used now.

Proposal 3 - Essentially Rearrange What We Have :dummy:
This would result in something like:
Customization > Digital Dolls > Adopted Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Adopted Base > Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Original Base* > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Original Base > Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Base > Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Base > Tool

*Original base really needs a rename if it is kept and I am open to suggestions.

Probably won't clear up miscats very well but it makes more sense submission-wise.  You'll notice that misc/other is missing.  I honestly think that any shading style aside from pixel is essentially brought about with tools; even no shading, just a flat colour is the paint bucket tool.  And just black and white pixel by pixel dolls or doll bases can go into the pixel category.  So it seems like a redundant category to keep.  We can let the doller's own discretion decide where they wish to place pieces that they would normally reserve for misc/other.

Proposal 4 - Leave things alone
No change because we're too old for that :shakefish:

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that I am most partial to proposal one or two.  They both use plain language and are simple to follow, which will help with anyone new to dA or to digital dolls.  The set up is muddled enough that even veterans get confused on occasion.  There are already several divides in the community based on dolling method and I think the current categorization system, which was meant to cater to the niche aspects of dolling, reinforces the divide and helps to fragment the community, which was not the intended aim.  I think by merging as much as possible, we can move towards becoming a more unified community.

Please feel free to express which proposal you like best, why and any changes that may improve any of the proposals =)

A few proposals to restructure the Digital Dolls gallery. Any polite thoughts on improvements or just endorsements (with reasons why) of plans proposed would be helpful =)
Add a Comment:
 
:iconvayliya:
Vayliya Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013  Professional General Artist
Ok I think my vote is
Customization > Digital Dolls > Dolls > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Dolls > Tooled
Customization > Digital Dolls > Bases > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Bases > Tooled
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Dolls
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Bases and Line Art


I know I should have posted this earlier.
Original bases are the best way I think we can explain them. I don't feel we need to explain if Tracing is a distinct category. Kill the deep sub categories. Just in the description say if you used an image that was not your own for the making of this base, then it is traced.
Reply
:iconpixelmeblu:
PixelMeBlu Featured By Owner Apr 13, 2013
2b! I want to be able to browse bases with more ease of knowing what's not traced. Maybe not refer to things as "original work" and "traced work" if only because "traced work" may prompt people to trace entire pictures. Not sure what else to call them, though. x:

:dummy:
Reply
:iconastanine:
Astanine Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Okay, so I'm coming here today to suggest something: As someone who's been screamed at by "dollers" for telling them their pony bases, pony "dolls", sonic "dolls", animal line-arts, etc., I can see that reasoning with them is simply not cutting it. They don't understand the origins of dolling, and it's hard for a lot of traditional dollers to swallow.

We see a lot of animal/pony/sonic things in the Digital Dolls category, and to be honest, I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. The people cluttering up the digital dolls categories with miscats want to be recognized as dollers (for whatever reason!). Why not give them that?

Why can we not split Digital Dolls into two sub groups? You'd select Customization and then Digital Dolls, but before you go any farther, you'd have to select Human/Humanoid or Animal/Animalistic. And then go from there! We could separate what the traditional dollers want versus what the new "dollers" would like.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That is an interesting angle to consider :nod:

As things stand, all the sonic and MLP finished work should be in fanart and the line art should be in stock and resources as things currently stand. Especially since tracing is allowed in the fan art gallery. I'm not sure why they want to consider them dolls, to be honest, but since dolling uses techniques found in many areas of digital art, it is hard to separate dolls based on method... Sorry for the rambling. I'll be considering that angle for sure though :nod:

But for now, please don't approach people asking them to move things themselves, it can cause a lot of needless drama, especially since to them you are "just another user" without authority on the website ^^;
Reply
:iconastanine:
Astanine Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm not sure why they want them considered dolls either, but that's what I've encountered in my searching. I can understand how they think the pony line-arts are bases, but the end results just don't fit the definition of a doll. But if their intent is a doll, then that's something to consider. (And I remember our previous comment thread on this journal about intent!) It'd certainly give them an option, and help keep clear the human/humanoid category!

Hahaha! Yes, I realized that quite quickly and I've long since stopped. It's interesting though! Some of them just follow the herd and post in the digital dolls area, not realizing that it's not the proper area. Others feel a strange sense of entitlement to post wherever they feel like it. It's weird. ^^;
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That's true as well :nod: Yet since it does seem to be a fandom thing, it seems very odd that fan art does not appeal to them for categorization, so I'd like to try to figure out why (out of personal interest :lol: )
Reply
:iconastanine:
Astanine Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Please share your results, hehe! I'm interested too!
Reply
:icontejinashinsen:
Tejinashinsen Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
I like the first two options, leaning to the second a little more because sometimes you just want to show case something tooled and it's hard to tell if the doller's that good.

But simple is better isn't it?
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yep =)

Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:icontejinashinsen:
Tejinashinsen Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
No problem
Reply
:iconcl0udee:
cl0udee Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2013
I really prefer proposal 2a. The fact of the matter is that, just looking at a base, unless the basemaker does a lot of crazy edit and whatnot to their tracing, you can tell if a base is traced or not, so there's not really a huge need to separate them from other bases. (I don't personally use a lot of traced bases, but if I did I edit the shit out of my bases anyway so it doesn't phase me.) The only reason I think pixel and tool shaded should be separated is just for categorization's sake, in fact. Well, that and the fact that it will keep elitists on both sides happy because I know you guys are out there. >__<
As to what kind of base a doll is on, I don't know who really cares searching through the categories and in galleries. Folks credit base makers in their comments anyway (if they don't I will punch them in the gut~) so like, by separating those on adopted bases, personal bases, or the baseless, you're just separating the red-and-yellow gummy worms from the yellow-and-red gummy worms. u__u
Those are just my two cents based on all my years of dolling~
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconbanished-dreams:
Banished-Dreams Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2013
Both proposals 2A and B seem like the most logical, but probably very difficult solutions due to the original vs. traced and pixel vs. tooled debates.

I think having the categories like this will help keep more miscats from happening, but it feels like no matter what the situation miscats will always happen due to both doll newbies and veterans who don't read the categories anyways, haha
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconvinka-chan:
Vinka-chan Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2013
Personally, I would like:
Customization > digital dolls > pixel shaded
Customization > digital dolls > tool shaded
Customization > digital dolls > bases > original
Customization > digital dolls > bases > traced

This is based on how I browse for things: I see there's a visual/style difference between tool and shaded dolls and sometimes I feel like looking at pixeled or others at tool shaded, so I like that distinction for browsing's sake.
As for bases, I don't really mind pixeled and tooled being in the same category as I can easily reshade them to suit the doll, but I have a big problem with traced bases: SIZE. I find that more often not traced bases are huuuge and resizing them basically means resizing AND re-tracing them in order for the base to look presentable. IDK, maybe bases / bases>big would be more fitting (I've come across some really good small traced bases).

Failing that I'd like 2a or 3
Reply
:iconmaiandra:
Maiandra Featured By Owner Mar 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I also like this proposed sorting idea. Although if it has to be one of the categories listed I would choose 2b
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconrainbow-heron:
rainbow-heron Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Proposal #3 with the following added:
Customization > Digital Dolls > collabs > finished
Customization > Digital Dolls > collabs > open

As a fan of the genre, this would help me find what I'm looking for.

Also, is there *any* way possible to seperate classic digital dollz from these anime scenes/Sonic or MLP/Generator results I keep seeing? I don't consider them to be dollz and it would really help if they got their own catergory. I don't wanna sift thru 100s of sonics, ponies, and collabs in various stages in order to find *one* classic pixel doll!

Thanks for your considration.
Reply
:iconjadewaters:
JadeWaters Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Myself I like option 3... only maybe change the name of some categories so it looks like this.

Customization > Digital Dolls > Adopted Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Adopted Base > Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Baseless > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Baseless> Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Base > Tool
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Base > Pixel
Customization > Digital Dolls > Traced Base > Tool

Basically if the person created the base that the doll is one themselves then it should be considered baseless as they didn't use a base someone else created. If you use a base someone else created be it traced or not traced then it would be adopted.

also if you're going to 'adopt a doll' from another doller that wouldn't be uploaded to your profile just marked as a favorite
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I would hope no one's uploading dolls other people made XD

Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconokami-hu:
OKami-hu Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I prefer #3, because I honestly think that most people need everything spoon-fed to them.

'Own base' instead of Original...?
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Own base seems to be the consensus :nod:

Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconartbytiffany:
artbytiffany Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist
Without getting to complex about it, I like 2b.
I think it's simple enough, but with enough sections.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconartbytiffany:
artbytiffany Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist
Your Welcome :)
Reply
:iconquinqui:
quinqui Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
OMG, there's a lot of comments, I read last ones, but I have no time to read all, sorry -_-

I always prefer the option which gives right place to every thing, so I guess I incline to something like 3rd option.

I say "something like", because I still don't like the way some categories have been distributed , and even some categories' names (for instance, the first time I post a doll in dA, I thought that "Adopted Base" category was meant to post dolls I adopt from other dollers, what had no logic if it's my work... -_-)

I was thinking to propose some other option, which starts moving all to Digital Art > Pixelart, but the issue resides in the technique used: pixel/tool. So, I have to decline to propose, which it's a pity for me -_-
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:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you for your input =)
Reply
:icon0pinkcat0:
0PinkCat0 Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I like 2b best. It's already like 2 separate communities between the people who trace and the ones who don't with people who don't getting irritated with trying to sort through 6 pages of traced bases to find just 1 that isn't. And I'm hoping it will clear up whatever confusion leads to all the miscats.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconbreebles:
Breebles Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
I'll admit before I begin to not reading anyone else's comments first.

I like the idea of Original vs Traced because it allows us to break it down into the two categories of dolling that are so at odds with each other. If all of the traced stuff is in one spot, it's not "blemishing" the dolling community (please note that's not my opinion, I'm paraphrasing a popular opinion). It also eliminates the distinction between tooling and pixeling because really, aren't we all dolling? I know even when I pixel shade, there are a lot of people who think what I do should be considered tooling. There are also people who think dollers like Debb who use the curve tool are "cheating" and thus "tooling". If it's all lumped together, there's no point to argue over what's pixeled and what's tool.

And I'm sure there are people who are in favor of keeping them separated still so that they can search for tooled or pixeled dolls at their preference. Easy solution there. Keywords! Tooled / Pixeled / Original Base / Adopted Base / etc. Can all go in there and we don't have to have 20 subcategories. Use the search! I do it in the first place because of all of the miscats. It lets me see just what I want without seeing (most) miscats.

That's my input.

Could we perhaps make the categories Base(d) / Baseless instead of Adopted Base and Original Base if we're going to keep that? That's were a lot of confusion comes in. If someone uses their own base is an Adopted Base or an Original Base or Baseless? >>
Reply
:iconblackfyrevalyrian:
BlackfyreValyrian Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013
Lol people think others who use the curve tool are tooling? XD That's hilarious I've never heard that before. Of course I whole-heartedly admit I know nothing about tooling I never would have thought that.
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:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =) I'm in agreement; we're all dolling and that's the important part.

Yeah names will definitely change if we keep/rearrange what we have.
Reply
:icondaenerys:
Daenerys Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013
Actually, if I am really really honest, I'd get rid of the digital dolls gallery all together and allows pixel shaded dolls and bases to be posted to pixel art categories, and tooled dolls and bases in digital drawing categories. We keep separating dolls into 'pixel/tooled' and bases into 'traced/orginal', and it just sort of grates on me.

If the dolls gallery is kept, make it simple and just lump it all together. one for finished dolls one for bases (or templates, I have seen them called that too). So 1.

If the gallery splitting is meant to cater to those who would like to not see certain types of dolls, you can keep splitting and splitting until each doll has its own category. For me, digital/pixel/tooled dolls have no defined rules about what is or what isnt a doll. It changes with each generation of dollers. And the turn over in generations in dolling is fast and quick, isnt it? :)
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Entirely fair =) Thank you for your input.
Reply
:iconamaryllisir:
Amaryllisir Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
2b with an added 'baseless' category would be lovely.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconbeblue:
beblue Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student General Artist
I think the last is fine, but maybe just add a third option, which is 'traced' or 'anime' to bases. Honestly, the biggest issue with digital dolls atm is the fact that these shitty not-really-bases get mixed in with the rest, and if they were exiled to their own category, it'd allow people to just browse through bases they might actually use.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
By the last do you mean leave things alone? Because there us currently a traced base category. And traced bases are included in the 3rd proposal... So I'm just rather confused by your meaning, sorry ^^;
Reply
:iconbeblue:
beblue Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student General Artist
There's a traced base category?? when did that happen?

And why does no one use it? XP
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
About 3 years ago and because people don't read (that's my guess anyways).
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:iconbeblue:
beblue Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student General Artist
errr, I guess I mean the 3rd, not the last.
Reply
:iconnanzzyrulezz:
NanzzyRulezz Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student General Artist
Personally I'd prefer proposal 2b~ O3o
It'd take care of most of the miscats hopefully; also not a fan of the traced bases, part because even though there ARE some good ones out there, most are pretty bad; another part because, to put it very bluntly, it's both lazy and stealing, esp. all the traced anime screenshots and such. There might be the occasional base where they got permission, but it's damn hard to keep track of :no:
All in all, I'd have a feeling it'd be best to separate them; because they're going to be around either way, even if dA makes some rule against it - might as well keep them away from the originals that people put all their time and creativity into to create :nod:
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:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconpuppetka:
puppetka Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student General Artist
To me option 2b looks the most reasonable :). I'm not so sure about the 'finished dolls' name thing, but it might get rid of all the WIPs as well as miscat bases.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconcatluvr2:
catluvr2 Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Given two deviations that look similar, I'd be more impressed with it if I knew that it had been pixeled as opposed to being tooled.
case in point: my first 2 DDs were emoticons with vector shading. I'm more proud of my third DD, which has pixeled shading.
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Fair enough =)
Reply
:iconfrizzkitty:
FrizzKitty Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I am a fan of simplicity. If it gets more simple, I'm for it. That said, of the options you have currently, I would go with 1 or 2b. I'll elaborate more if you need me to, just say the word. :)
Reply
:iconlyricanna:
Lyricanna Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your input =)
Reply
:iconladyhazy:
LadyHazy Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Hmmm, the way I see it dolling boils down to only
1. Dolls; and
2. Bases

I don't think it's necessary to distinguish between tooled and pixel... I think it's pretty much akin to, say, the traditional gallery segregating watercolors, oils, acrylics and gouache. Plus there's the grey area of dolls that are pixel-tool hybrids (or those that use neither pixel or tool techniques at all, although that's a very small minority...) I say just lump them together. Anyway, a good doll is a good doll regardless of how it is made.

As for the traced and original categories... I don't think it's necessary to segregate them. To what ends should they be segregated? Most would cite quality control issues, but then none of the other galleries distinguish between poor quality or good quality work directly. Plus, there's also the grey area of bases that were traced with permission - pretty damn good bases at that. Is it right to lump them with other traced bases just because of quality control issues? Browsing a gallery full of original dolls is nice, but then we have groups that can categorize that for us.

I just wish DA had a more comprehensive system of sorting deviations by tags instead of getting all messy with subfolders. (Maybe make them mandatory tags?) I think it's a nice way of categorizing a doll as both 'original' and 'tooled' without having to go into subcat after subcat to get there, if you know what I mean...

(This is all just my :twocents: though. Whatever you decide on, I'm all for it and will not complain. It's just that simplifying is, for me, less messy :))
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